EXCLUSIVE: Proof there never was any need for NI Protocol, nor Windsor Framework

Customs heads, North and South, confirmed no need for ‘hard border’ even for ‘Hard Brexit’

Montage © Facts4EU.Org 2023

Parliamentary testimony from HM Customs and the Irish Revenue shows the Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement was only ever under threat from the EU, not from Brexit

Over five years ago the Customs organisations North and South, responsible for border controls, gave testimony to their respective parliaments in committee sessions, where they made it emphatically clear that no hard border would ever be required as a result of Brexit.

And they did so on the basis of ‘the worst case scenario’, where the UK would leave the EU without a deal – the so-called ‘Hard Brexit’.

Their testimony proves beyond any doubt that there never was any need for the EU’s Northern Ireland Protocol, and nor, by implication, any need for the ‘Windsor Framework’ agreed by Rishi Sunak on Monday.

Brexit Facts4EU.Org Executive Summary

The evidence from those who have to manage the border
(Scroll down for details)

2017 – HMRC : ‘No new border infrastructure needed under any circumstances’
2017 – HMRC : ‘Now we can’t even talk to the Irish Revenue’
2017 – Irish Revenue : ‘Absolutely no plans for anything along the Border’
2017 – Irish Revenue : ‘There is a legal impediment to negotiations between us and HMRC’
2018 – EU Parliament’s expert : ‘There would not need to be any new infrastructure’
2018 – EU Parliament’s expert : ‘The technology proposed has been tested’

All cooperation to put solutions in place ready for Brexit were stopped by the EU Commission, who were then pursuing the Northern Ireland Protocol to split up the UK.

[The full testimony is below. Above we have paraphrased for brevity and clarity of meaning.]

This is a Brexit Facts4EU.Org and CIBUK.Org report which will leave readers thinking “How can this possibly be true?” And yet it is, every word of it. And we have the evidence to prove it. (Below.)

How the EU and the Republic of Ireland conspired to break up the United Kingdom
The basic facts

In 2017, committees of the Dáil Éireann and the House of Commons were told by the heads of their respective Customs authorities that no border infrastructure would be necessary as a result of Brexit – even in the event of a worst-case ‘no-deal Brexit’. In 2018 the committee of the EU parliament was told the same thing by the expert they commissioned to produce a report.

How the EU justified their Protocol that has divided the United Kingdom

The EU has consistently been adamant that a Protocol is required to avoid a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic. They claimed it was necessary to protect the peace established in the Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement. If this claim is proven to be false, then neither the Protocol nor the new ‘Windsor Framework’ are necessary and can be consigned to the dustbin of history.

Following the EU Referendum and the vote to leave the EU, the heads of the Customs organisations north and south of the border started talking to each other, discussing how the new arrangements could work.

They did so on the basis of the UK leaving the EU without a deal – the so-called ‘Hard Brexit’ – and on the basis that no hard border should be established between North and South. They concluded that no hard border was required under any circumstances. At this point, the bilateral talks between the two organisations most involved were suddenly stopped by the Irish government, clearly acting in consort with the EU Commission.

Since then, there has been what appears to be a news blackout, with the exception of Brexit Facts4EU.Org which has continued to attempt to publicise this extraordinary situation. Today, together with CIBUK.Org – of which Facts4EU.Org is an affiliate member - we are placing the facts on record.

The evidence presented before both parliaments – and to the EU Parliament – in 2017 and 2018

Brexit Facts4EU.Org Summary

Damning evidence against the EU and Irish government over the N.I. Protocol

What follows are formal testimonies given to the parliamentary committees
of the UK's and Republic of Ireland's parliaments

1. What HMRC said about there being no need for a Protocol

Q: “In the event of no deal, would it be possible to achieve no border infrastructure?”

Sir Jon Thompson, CEO of HMRC, 2017 : "We do not believe we require any infrastructure between Northern Ireland and Ireland under any circumstances."

2. On the EU preventing the UK and Irish Customs organisations from implementing solutions

Q: “Have you had any dealings with the Irish about this?”

Sir Jon Thompson, Head of HMRC: “There are no formal conversations with either the French or the Irish. We cannot talk to Customs or taxation management organisations in either of those countries. There are only informal conversations with the Belgians and the Dutch.”

3. What the Irish Revenue said about there being no need for a Protocol

Liam Irwin (Irish Revenue Commissioner), 2017:

“We are planning for trade facilitation, enabling goods to move. We have absolutely no plans for anything along the Border at this stage.”

Q: “Revenue has identified several locations where customs posts could be erected in------”

Mr Liam Irwin (Irish Customs): “That is not true.”

Q: “That is not true?”

Mr Liam Irwin (Irish Customs): “That is not true.”

4. On the EU preventing the UK and Irish Customs organisations from implementing solutions

Q: “Could Mr. Cody clarify whether there is a legal impediment to negotiations between us and-----”

Mr Niall Cody (Irish Customs): “Yes.”

Q: “-----so we can have discussions but not negotiations?”

Mr Niall Cody (Irish Customs): “The European Union will be negotiating with the United Kingdom in regard to Brexit.”

5. What the EU Parliament’s independent expert said about there being no need for a Protocol

Lars Karlsson, author of the EU parliament’s ‘Brexit Border/Customs Report’ and the EU parliament’s chosen expert, former Director of the World Customs Organization, speaking to the Exiting The EU Committee in Mar 2018:

"There would not need to be any necessary infrastructure and not need to be either CCTV cameras or number plate readers."

Question: “But the technology proposed in this report is untested, that’s correct isn’t it?” asked Joanna Cherry MP (SNP). “The proposal you’ve put here hasn’t actually been tested at any location anywhere in the world.”

Karlsson: “No that’s not correct. It actually has.”

Yet the EU took NI as a colony anyway – on wholly false grounds – as a Brexit punishment

The evidence we have presented above is incontestable. Neither Customs body, North and South, saw any need for a hard border. Not only that, but the international customs expert commissioned by the EU Parliament reported the same thing.

Given this, and in any rational world, the EU Commission would have dropped any thoughts of a Northern Ireland Protocol as there was clearly no need for one.

At this point the only possible explanation for the EU’s continued insistence on the Protocol was as a punishment for the British people voting to leave its empire. Fortunately here we have the evidence collected in a BBC Four fly-on-the-wall documentary made over two years by Lode Desmet, who had extraordinary access to meetings in Brussels.

We see the plottings of MEP Guy Verhofstadt, (then the EU Parliament’s ‘Brexit Co-ordinator’), Michel Barnier, (then the Commission’s Chief Brexit Negotiator), as well as MEPs, Commission and Parliament officials, and others. Below is just one short clip from this documentary. It shows the two officials working for Guy Verhofstadt.

Credit: Storyville, Lode Desmet

Observations

Most of the political headlines this week have been about the Prime Minister's deal with the EU over Northern Ireland. Despite the hours of broadcasting on the BBC, Sky News and ITN, no-one has questioned the fundamental premise of the Protocol and the new 'Windsor Framework'. This is :-

"Why was the Protocol ever necessary in the first place?"

And the answer, as we have proved above, is that it wasn't.

It almost beggars belief to think of all the time that has been spent over the last six years on the vexed question of Northern Ireland, the border with the Republic, and the need to 'deal with this' in the context of the UK leaving the EU.

The simple fact is that the two organisations charged with managing the border - the Irish Revenue and the UK's HMRC - both said there was never any need for a hard border of any kind. They were happily working together to set up arrangements for managing the transition without any physical infrastructure when the EU and the government of the Republic of Ireland pulled the plug on them.

All direct communications between them on this issue were stopped. As the head of HMRC said : "We cannot talk to Customs or taxation management organisations in either of those countries." This was echoed by the head of the Irish Revenue when questioned if they were having discussions who said: "The European Union will be negotiating with the United Kingdom in regard to Brexit."

This is not only a disgrace, it is a devastating indictment of the EU Commission's actions and behaviour since the British people voted to leave its sclerotic empire. We really would like to hear a defence of any kind for this shameful conduct.

'Protocol 2.0' - Sunak ignores the facts in favour of the spin

And now we have a 'Protocol 2.0" in the form of Rishi Sunak's 'Windsor Framework'. Yet again no-one in Government seems to be the slightest bit interested in the core fact that the Protocol was demonstrably a manufactured device to annex part of the United Kingdom, as shown by the fact that the EU Commission and Irish government acted in consort to close down the solution that Customs officials on both sides of the border were working on.

The two organisations directly responsible for managing border rules saw no need for any border infrastructure. If they didn't, who exactly did, and in what possible way can they have been better qualified?

All of this has led to where we are today, with even Boris Johnson now weighing in against the Windsor Framework.

"This is not about the UK taking back control.... This is the EU graciously unbending to allow the UK to do whatever we want in our own country - not by our laws, but by theirs."
- The Rt Hon Boris Johnson MP, Global Soft Power Summit, 02 Mar 2023

Facts4EU.Org urgently needs you today

We are a 'not for profit' team (we make a loss) and any payment goes towards the actual work, not plush London offices, lunch or taxi expenses, or other luxuries of some organisations.

We badly need more of our thousands of readers to become members, to support this work. Could this be you, today? It's quick and easy, we give you a choice of two highly secure payment providers, and we do NOT ask you for further support if you pay once. We just hope you keep supporting us. Your membership stays anonymous unless you tell us otherwise.

Please don't assume that other people will keep us going - we don't receive enough to survive and we need your help today. Could you help us? We rely 100% on public contributions from readers like you.

If you believe in a fully-free, independent, and sovereign United Kingdom, please join now by clicking on one of the links below or you can use our Support page here. You will receive a personal, friendly ‘thank you’ from a member of our team within 24 hours. Thank you.

[ Sources: UK Parliament | The Dáil Éireann | Storyville BBC documentary ] Politicians and journalists can contact us for details, as ever.

Brexit Facts4EU.Org, Fri 03 Mar 2023

Click here to go to our news headlines

Please scroll down to COMMENT on the above article.
And don't forget to actually post your message after you have previewed it!

Something to say about this? Scroll down for reader comments

Since before the EU Referendum, Brexit Facts4EU.Org
has been the most prolific researcher and publisher of Brexit facts in the world.

Supported by MPs, MEPs, & other groups, our work has impact.

We think facts matter. Please donate today, so that we can continue to ensure a clean Brexit is finally delivered.

Any credit card user

Quick One-off

From £5 - £1,000

Monthly

From £3 per month

Paypal Users Only - Choose amount first

Quick One-off

Monthly

PLEASE NOTE IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT : You can write your comment under any existing comments below. After you have clicked to preview your comment, you MUST then click on the CAPTCHA system and send you comment, for it to be published. Thank you!

Reader Comments 19

1. Have You Wondered , Friday, March 03, 2023, 08:18:

.
Have You Wondered why this revelation has just surfaced and all the ensueing questions that arise from it?
.
Who and why has kept this quiet? Why wait until now to give it sunshine? Think of all the cost, arguement, wasted time ........
.
Secondly, I have posted this on this site and many times on others:
.
I have been through the Good Friday Agreement and see only referrals to physical military installations not civil administrative structures.
.
I think there is political mischief when bureaucrats from the various factions talk about a border and what defines it, not for the betterment of its electorate more for what suits their political purpose?
.
Another point:
.
The EU commissioned this report & published it in November 2017
Search: europarl europa. eu Reg Data etudes STUD 2017 596828 IPOL STU (2017) 596828 EN . pdf
.
Why is no one talking about it?
.
Abstract:
"This study, commissioned by the European Parliament's Policy Department for Citizens' Rights & Constitutional Affairs at the request of the AFCO Committee, provides background on cross border movement & trade between Northern Ireland & Ireland & identifies international standards & best practices & technologies to avoid a 'hard' border as well as case studies that provide insights into creating a smooth border experience. The technical solution provided is based on innovative approaches with a focus on cooperation, best practices & technology that is independent of any political agreements on the UK's exit from the EU & offers a template for future UK EU border relationships. "
.
Within that document, the technical solutions appear to exist:
5.1.3 Border Operations
.
Rotterdam are already using High Tech.
Search: icontainers com help rotterdam port customs inspection
.
Can no one tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
.

2. Sparky , Friday, March 03, 2023, 08:31:

Leaving the EU makes UK a third country and outside the free movement areas.
If border checks are required at Dover then checks would be required between UK and RoI. To avoid this the border is either UK NI or RoI and EU. Clearly RoI and EU would not be acceptable to RoI
If Barnier used NI UK negotiators should have been better prepared.

3. Ashley Great Britain , Friday, March 03, 2023, 09:15:

It's exactly as we have been saying all along.
-
The EU were never negotiating in good faith, They wanted to damage and punish the UK and try to tie us into close alignment.
The protocol was never needed.
Normal trade could have continued between all parties as it does on borders around the world.
The weak UK government allowed this to happen, We can only presume because they are supporting the Eu's cause and don't really want to be fully independent, They don't want Brexit.
The EU are and always have been maleficent towards Britain.
Ministers,civil servants and institutions have been bought out by the EU over decades.
They have conquered us from within having failed with boots and bullets.
A vote for reform uk next year will be even bigger than Brexit.
If we get labour or the Conservatives we are finished and only have ourselves to blame.(and the EU of course)

4. William Davison , Friday, March 03, 2023, 11:43:

I don't know why this is being labelled an "exclusive," we've known this for years. When Leo Varadkar became Taoseach he wanted to play the role of "teacher's pet "and offered up the border as something which could be turned into a huge issue by the EU and used as a lever, bargaining chip/blackmail tool. The real fault lies with successive British governments in not pushing back against this nonsense.

5. Gazzablack , Friday, March 03, 2023, 11:48:

1, have you wondered
.
It hasn't, facts4eu flagged this up years ago.
And it's minutes and recorded in the respective parliaments.
.
.
2, Sparky
.
Are you deaf ?????
.The EU's justification for the NIP was 'to protect the GFA', but that's clearly not the case going by YOUR rationale.

6. Major Graham Lear , Friday, March 03, 2023, 11:55:

1. Have You Wondered
This article is a rehash of an article by Facts4EU in 2019. So It's not just coming to light. It's an article reminding people that both the EU and the Irish Government shafted the UK. I think they did three such articles in Jan, and Feb of 2019

7. Llwyd , Friday, March 03, 2023, 12:34:

This has been known about for some time.
See also the BBC documentary which followed the negotiations between Michel Barnier and the UK.
During a hot mic moment he clearly stated that he would be weaponising the Northern Ireland border issue.
So despite the EU claiming all along that protection of the Good Friday agreement was their first priority this was clearly never the case.
This also went against the assertion in the Withdrawal Agreement that both parties involved should act ‘in good faith’ during negotiations.
The solutions to the border were there all along as this article states but peace in Northern Ireland was never a concern for the EU commission.
The only solution to the intransigence of Brussels would have been to trigger Article 16. This wouldn’t have resulted in the suspension of the TCA as the hysterical British media claimed and by now this whole mess would have been sorted.
As it stands the UK is still shackled to the EU due to the lack of courage of the Conservative party.

8. Jon, Wales , Friday, March 03, 2023, 13:02:

HYW (1) - Suggest also search "Smart Borders 2.1" by Lars Karlsson (which takes 2.0 in account).
I find it incredible our politicians ignore such things, as well as the EU commission who will do anything to make things difficult.
As a true Brit and Brexiteer, I find it a disgraceful state of affairs when our Prime Minister still bows to a foreign power at the feet at the feet of German bureaucrat VDL.
Our government and the entire House of Commons should remember who they work for, and, when a vote is taken it must be upheld.
I caveat this by stating clearly to Prime Minister Sunak and his party that any decisions made in the HC should fully implement the 2016 democratic referendum result.
Failure to do so means once again that it's parliament -v- the people, and perhaps we're still 'fighting' a remain civil service.
In my opinion, all of them need weeding out.
Why won't Sunak properly stand up for our country and just TELL the EU commission where to get off, or is he simply to weak? We don't require permissions from them.

9. Jon, Wales , Friday, March 03, 2023, 15:38:

As usual, this article provides the facts. Having watched all of 'Brexit Behind Closed Doors' once again, it is unequivocally clear the EU commission set out from the get-go to 'punish' the UK in any way they can get away with, just because our majority voted to exit their construct.
It is clear [with the benefit of hindsight] that when the UK refused to accept the imposition of EU governance etc, the EU changed their stance along the way when we said "NO".
At present, the EU are doing their very best to trap the United Kingdom forever, which, in the fullness of time may lead to 'ever closer union' - in other words, the destruction of our United Kingdom - or the EU commission will have won what they wanted to get in the first place - TOTAL enslavement of the UK to the unaccountable EU.
We will have to do what this foreign body wants us to do. Be in no doubts, that any EU laws left in NI will affect the UK in some way or another.
I say NO, and I trust all Brexiteers will continue our 'fight' against a hostile EU.
Seems to me the EU have taken an attitude where joining the EEC in the 1970's, means no-one can ever leave it, even in the face of a democratic decision to exit.
Prime Minister Sunak is, in my opinion, not fighting for a true independent United Kingdom and all its constituent parts, but appears to be appeasing the EU.
Have our political class no shame, because if we value only one thing in the United Kingdom, it is our well established democracy - DEMOCRACY IS NOW DEAD?

10. Captain Thunderbolt , Friday, March 03, 2023, 16:58:

2. Sparky , Friday, March 03, 2023, 08:31:
Leaving the EU makes UK a third country and outside the free movement areas.
If border checks are required at Dover then checks would be required between UK and RoI. To avoid this the border is either UK NI or RoI and EU. Clearly RoI and EU would not be acceptable to RoI
If Barnier used NI UK negotiators should have been better prepared.
-
Not sure why you keep sprouting this nonsense, legally no checks are required at Dover or in Calais for that matter. And this is via trading under an FTA (TCA) or under WTO.
If the receiving nation mandates customs checks then they still don’t have to happen at the border for goods (it just makes it easier) they could easily just go to a bonded storage in Paris or Dublin if that’s what they wanted.
Also, there is free movement for between Irish nationals and UK nationals via the CTA remember we had a lengthy discussion on the matter.
It was not a matter of the UK being better prepared. It was a matter of the May government to honour the wishes of the electorate to which they cast there vote to leave the EU. It was not within her manifesto to deliver a BRINO to placate her own beliefs of remaining within the EU.

19 comments, page 1 of 2

Add comment:

Please note: Your email address is never published unless you choose to enter it.